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tv   Piers Morgan Live  CNN  October 15, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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with a lot of tea partiers. thanks for joining us. i'm jake tapper. i'll be here tomorrow another night for "shutdown showdown." you can check out "the lead" weekdays at 4:00 p.m. eastern. this is "piers morgan live." welcome to the viewers in the united states and around the world. breaking news, this country is about to drive the family car right over the cliff. and if that scares you, it should. tomorrow to get the government working again and debt celling extended, it could be a shock for america's economy, the world's economy and most importantly, to your economy. members of congress on the right and left why they failed to end this so far, plus some of the smartest men and women around on exactly what will happen when the clock strikes midnight tomorrow and if there is a deal,
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what about republicans and democrats? i'll ask bill richardson why ted cruz, wait for it, is a brilliant man and argues what congress is doing right now may be unconstitutional. harry reid and mitch mcconnell working late into the night tonight drafting a deal on the tremendous pressure. joining me breanna and dana bash. what is going on down where you are and will there be any real action tonight? >> at the white house we don't expect to see president obama and the action very much on the senate. all eyes on the white house at this point. president obama said today he does believe that the shutdown will be over thursday. granted, that was this morning before everything went down in the house but that would also mean increasing the debt ceiling and piers, there is still a feeling here at the white house that there is time to avoid default.
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you don't really see the president getting very directly involved at this point in what is going on on capitol hill. he had leaders to sure up support but there is a sense if president obama gets very involved, tries to broker a deal, that it becomes rejected just out of hand because his name is attached to it and there is so much an mist between the republicans and him. the white house is in touch with harry reid's camp as he is brokering a proposal with his counter part mitch mcconnell, piers. >> dana bash, let's get to the nuts and bolts of this. today the latest gop attempted a deal collapsed. then it goes to the senate, they are now talking on both sides. we're told they are working on a potential deal, which they then file. what does that mean and in terms of votes, which may actually lead to a real deal, what is the process? >> well, there are potential scenarios, which i won't get
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into because it will probably make your head spin in the senate but the headline is that we understand that they do have a tentative deal. when i say deal, the democratic leader in the senate, the republican leader in the senate decided tonight is not the time to release it. we expect them to do it as soon as tomorrow morning and that the frame work of it will be along the lines of what you and i talked about last night. the difference is that democrats are prepared to give in on one of the obama care provisions they wanted for their constituent see being unions. it was something that would have had a fee for employees that unions simply did not want in this obama care law, and they were fighting very hard against it. but it looks like democrats will pull that to get this done as quickly as possible because republicans were against it. that's sort of the substance of the deal. timing is still the same to fund the government, reopen it, fund it until the middle of january
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and to raise the debt ceiling until february 7th. the question how quickly can they get it done and can they get it done before the clock strikes midnight on that october 17th deadline, meaning in just two days, less than two days, it doesn't look look it will be easy for the senate to do that if ted cruz or other republicans who want to slow this use their tools. so that's going to be what to watch for sbl certainly is. dana bash, breanna, thank you. joining me jim heinz on the financial services committee. let me start with you jim heinz. there is a rising sense of tension or if not out right terror because of this, particularly the part led by ted cruz and these 40 renegades and republicans as many see them, there may not be a deal but the debt ceiling deadline may come
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and go and we could face a form of financial armageddon. is this likely? >> it's hard to say at this point. we're at the tail end of a 15-day period kicked off by senator cruise around this idea he had any probability or the americans had probability of repealing the affordable care act. it was never going to happen. today, this morning we actually had a deal being hammered between the two senate leaders. the house republican stepped in and said we got a bill we'll put forward and that came apart. so now we're back where we should have been with a very clean deal. we don't know what it looks like yet that would raise the debt ceiling and avoid the prospect of default and get the government started again. so we have to keep our fingers crossed in the senate that deal gets struck. >> marsha blackburn, let's talk about ted cruz for a moment because he's the man for the moment, good or bad depending on your view and he's clearly making a bit of a dash to be a
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front runner for the republican nomination perhaps in 2016 and that's the real agenda. what is good for ted cruz and his political career might be disas rous for the american people, if not his own party. what is your view of his behavior? >> i think one of the things we should do now is not talk about personalities. what we should talk about is how we make certain that we get this nation on the track to fiscal health and responsibility. and one of the things we cannot do is continue borrowing $2 billion a day to keep the lights on and regardless of whether we like someone or don't like someone, what we have to realize is we've been through a process of people who were elected by their constituents to come to d.c. and express the point of view and so many of us have constituents who say look, jobs, the economy, getting us on the road to fiscal health, returning
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us to where we are going to see jobs growth, where we're going to see economic growth, that is item number one. dealing with the impact of obama care on the economy, that's an important thing to do and piers, we come, everybody bring their best ideas and their best thoughts and what we have right now -- >> but the trouble -- the trouble is -- >> i wish we weren't here but we are. >> marsha blackburn, the problem is it may be the best idea and thoughts for you and ted cruz but like i say, the best ideas and thoughts might be absolutely catastrophic for the american people and global economy. at what point does the out right selfish self-interest of ted cruz and his colleagues out weigh the american interest in the global economic interest? >> there again, what we don't do is talk about personalities. >> come off it, marsha -- >> how do we deal -- >> no, marsha -- [ overlapping speakers ]
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>> this is what we need to put -- >> marsha, marsha, ted cruz doesn't stop talking about barack obama's personality. >> this dealt with. we didn't want a government shutdown. we don't want to have a default on the debt. what we are doing -- >> right. >> what house republicans have done is we have passed four different continuing resolutions, and a budget and, you know -- >> let me ask you a question -- >> [ overlapping speakers ] >> i know, you've been unbelievable responsible, which is why the government is shut down for two weeks. >> we wish it wasn't shut down. if it were up to us, it wouldn't be. [ overlapping speakers ] >> let me ask you this, marsha blackburn. >> yes? >> you o usely didn't want the government shut down but it already has shut down. >> that's right. >> do you want the debt ceiling to run into default? are you prepared -- >> oh, absolutely not. >> so -- >> absolutely not. >> what will you be doing as a party to avoid that. >> i continue to work with other republicans in the house to see
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if we can find a resolution to this issue. we did not want to get right here to the last minute. what i want to see is us work through a plan so that we're dealing with our long-term fiscal issues. borrowing amount of money we're borrowing everyday is not a sustainable position. every economist tells us that. >> every economist says what is going on is utter nonsense. >> the borrowing a is part of that nonsense. >> there are many issues to do with obama care and the american economy and all sorts of things. >> that's right. >> what you don't do is shut the government down over what is a law. let me turn to jim heinz. you can take your view about this. it's ted cruz' part and so on or say politically for him and the tea party element, he seems to be holding all the cards, playing them and making himself extremely famous and probably,
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as i say, a front runner for presidential run, but how did we get to a stage where president obama who so far not managed to stop this shut down and on the brink of this awful debt ceiling deadline, how is he going to get into a room and make people see sense at the moment you have to say he has not shown great leadership because if he had, he would have got it sorted. >> the president doesn't legislate. he signs laws that are sent to him by the congress of the united states and despite what marsha is saying, you know, there is nothing about the last 15 days, it's devastating for the economy. throwing people out of work the the economist says the management by crisis the republican party and the house demanded for years now probably cost the economy a million jobs, far more jobs than they can point to any credible source suggesting the affordable care act is damaging. by the way, forget about the jobs and everything hurting the american people.
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it devastated the political fortunes. 74% of americans disagree how republicans handled this. the american people don't want this country to be managed from crisis to crisis with government workers or head start programs or military contractors being used as tools or a fantasy. >> well and that is why -- >> wait a minute, marsha -- >> that's why we pass bills and send them to the senate. >> okay. you go right ahead. let me play you a clip from president obama talking about speaker boehner today. >> speaker boehner, for example, him negotiating with me isn't necessarily good for the extreme faction in his caucus. it weakens him. so there are repeated situations where we have agreements, then he goes back and it turns out that he can't control his caucus. >> this is a problem, isn't it marsha, blackburn is president obama doesn't know who to talk to. does he speak to speaker boehner
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or straight to ted cruz, cut out the middleman, go to the guy welding the power, shutting down the government, threatening the default. >> it's amazing to me that the president would think he should not be talking to speaker boehner and it is up to the president as the commander in chief and the leader to assemble people at the negotiating table. i would remind you, pierce, that over the last 40 years or so, we had 53 lifts to the debt ceiling. 27 of those have yielded spending cuts to what our nation spends. all of those have been negotiated with some type of policy reform. and we have talked about this previously on your show. standard operating procedure in dealing with budgets and continuing resolutions and debt ceilings has been for one side to take their plan, the other side to take their plan and to be at the negotiating table and
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take this out. it's a blatant lack of leadership on full display for the world to see that we have a president who has chosen that he would rather see a shut down than go to the table, who is waiting until the last day to meet everyone at the negotiating table. that is unfortunate. it is something that i wish had not happened. we have continued in good faith to pass a budget every year, to send it to the senate. to pass appropriation bills, which is the way we fill out or budget, send them to the senate. it is the senate that chooses not to take the action. that is harry reid's choice and decision. >> okay. all right. all right. jim heinz. final word to jim heinz. nothing to do with ted cruz or the republicans. in fact, lay it at the house of the white house, it's their fault. >> no, look, it's absurd and there is very few awe mer cans
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that believe the story this is the president's fault. john boehner could open the government by passing the clean senate c.r. tonight marsha is talking about the debt and long-term deal and we agree on that. we should negotiate that. two weeks ago it had nothing to do with negotiations of the debt. it was about repeal of the obama care. >> the continuing resolution -- >> every day the republicans have realized their position is increasingly untenable and they have changed their position. so even if the president were in -- you know, even if the president had any about pi to control the republicans in the house of representatives, which, by the way, the speaker of the house doesn't have, even if the president could control the house of representatives, what would he negotiate on? >> i got to leave it there. jim heinz and marsha blackburn, thank you. >> thank you. time is running out. what if they don't make a deal. what would it mean on wall street and around the world?
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down on wall street investors watch congress and wonder will the u.s. default with the world watching? joining me is christine romans, host of cnn's your money, josh barrow and ceo of the investment firm pimco. probably one of the greatest panels i've seen. congratulations on your new title christine. >> thank you. >> richard, let me turn to you first. what does this mean? we get to midnight tomorrow night and ted cruz digs heels in with his gang of 40 and forces this deadline to elapse without a deal? what happens to money in america and around the world? >> there is a delay in payment by the u.s. treasury, what happen thursday is the wiggle room becomes much tighter.
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if you look at the numbers from the treasury, 20 to $30 million on hand. so the hard decisions have to be taken and what we'll look for is spiking, you'll be looking to see what happens to the dollar and at any given moment, piers, and we don't know if it will be thursday or monday, piers. , the markets will take fright. >> how wall street responds so far you can argue over the last two weeks are remarkably patient for this situation assuming like warren buffet said, they go to the cliff and pull back. if they go over the cliff, what happens to wall street do you think and what about the rating agency fitch putting the states of a warning for a possible downgrade? how does that factor in?
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>> let me start with the first part of the question, what happens if they don't raise the debt ceiling and the u.s. in this case where you try to pick and choose which bills to pay. that would be terrible for the 401 k and stocks and there are dire predictions how big a sell off in stocks would be. what is fitch telling us today? fitch is telling us what we know. fitch is saying it's warning it could downgrade the u.s. credit rating because they didn't raise the debt ceiling in time and that there -- there -- frankly they are not doing their job. they are not running the books of the united states, and that's a problem. now fitch also went on to say they think there will be a deal eventually so going back to the big stock market sell off, that could maybe cause washington to get its about together and unlike a wasted day today maybe it would prod lawmakers to find a deal. >> let me bring in muhammad. you said some republican lawmakers are playing russian roulette what do you mean?
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>> treasuries and if you threaten default or default, you can disrupt the whole plumbing of the global system and you can tip the global economy to recession. >> josh barrow, let talk about politics as well as business and money. what do the republicans need to get to save any kind of face and make sure we don't all go over the cliff? >> that's gone now. the thing, the house republicans were trying to do is have a proposal to send to the senate. this is just for employees of the u.s. congress. they couldn't get the votes to pass this. aids to both harry reid the majority leader and minority leader saying close to a deal. there will probably be an
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announcement in the morning and there will be a minor strengthening in provisions that require the government verify people's incomes to make sure they are eligible. this is nothing. it won't be face saving. it will mean we get a deal that saves us from the financial market crisis. >> let's get the clock ticking down tomorrow. you started the markets as normal as we know, at what point do they start to really tank and at what point does it become inevitable that massive financial damage will be done regardless of whether they reach any last-second settlement? >> so on the second issue, piers, damage has been done, has been done to the real economy, people are spending less, companies are hiring less. so that is a real problem because it's not as if the economy was growing fast to begin with. there is damage to the standing of the u.s. and global economy.
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people are asking the question, do we outsource this country, our currency and financial? they use us as reserve currency. there is a lot of damage being done. in the short term, i agree nothing dramatic will happen the 17th. the probability of a mistake or accident goes up. if you get to november, a huge probability for an accident goes up. there isn't huge room for maneuver but nothing big will happen other than markets getting more and more nervous. >> i know you got to go. thank you for joining me. the rest will stay with me. christine, richard and josh. will this put us back into recession? that is a key question here.
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pictures of the white house where absolutely nothing has been happening basically for two weeks. breaking news is that the senate -- i'm sorry, that's the capitol, not the white house. christine, richard and josh barrow. let's turn to you richard quest on this. we were talking at the break there about the way forward here. in terms of america's reputation around the world, this is already been, i think, hideously embarrassing and i'm not sure how many people in washington really appreciate it? >> i was at the imf and world bank over the weekend. every finance minister you met and central banker had nothing but contempt. people like the uk and of
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france, they all said they understood the difficulties and understand stood how tough it was for the americans, but then they would go on to say they have done nothing but lecture everybody else what to do and they need to do it themselves. as fitch said as i referred earlier, what fitch says and one of the reasons tonight is on a negative ratings watch by the ratings agency is because it says the debt ceiling confidence in the government and political institutions. piers, the u.s. has been here several times before in the last few years. constantly trying to promise to do something about it and failing. >> christine, let's talk about the state of economy in totality without all this because the fed had already been propping everything up. you have a country with $17 trillion in debt. they are already problems in the system as it is but there had
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been ironically a few green shoots sprouting. is this going to kill off or are we heading back to a recession again? >> it's counter productive at best and dangerous and malpractice at worst and we're at the worst here. that is what this is. what you got congress actually choking off who has been a slow and steady recovery. look, we've had jobs created every single month since the last debt ceiling crisis a couple years ago, right? that's with a sequester and with this budget non-sense for the last couple years and probably in large part because the fed is the only functioning body in washington right now. so yeah, congress is working with purposes of job creation in america and remember, remember in the election how it was about jobs, jobs, jobs? that's gone away and complaining about obama care trying to gut obama care and trying to balance the budget. they aren't talking about the
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jobs but the fighting and it completely counter productive and today was another wasted day. they are wasting time, piers. >> josh burro, we had a moment with mark kelly, gabby gifford's husband, his brother is furloughed and 97% of nasa. his brother is looking for work, on the employment market. he's supposed to be in space representing america in 2015. this is almost scandalously embarrassing. very wise man just tweeted this, not seeing this paused out yet if boehner brings the senate bill, likely to be put forward by tomorrow morning dana bash thinks and it passes, tea party moves to oust him who becomes speaker? is conflict worse after that? this could unravel. unlikely but could happen that way. >> it's probably not going to happen that way because most of
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the republican caucus didn't want in this mess. you have 50 or 60 who wanted to have this defendant shut down fight over obama care. the rest of them -- i understand this was a dumb strategy they didn't want votes saying that because they are afraid of republican primaries when they will demand they shut down the government and fight to the dead end against obama care. a lot of republicans will be relieved when john boehner brings the senate bill to the floor. boehner has a good excuse now that the house hasn't been able to agree on a package. he can say what else was i going to do? we have no option other than to vote on the plan. i think we're talking about this being a hideously embarrassing thing, which it is, but an extension of the last two years, we had a debt limit fight like this back in 2011. a lot of this i think is already priced in and we'll continue to limp along like this and i think the only possible end game is democrats take back the house in an election in the year and
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republicans learn the lesson they don't get away with it. >> let me ask you this, we haven't talked about the impact on the average american with mortgages, loans, the basics in normal financial life. suze orman was painting a grim picture of what will happen. everything basically will be going up. >> i just got to take a little issue with what josh just suggested because things will not go back to normal. the world has changed in the sense that you have china talking about deamericanizing. you have the european union, which i agree by no means a sobriety on questions of fiscal priority but they are there. the u.s. cannot continue to play this sort of role and expect to get away with it. >> they said this in 2011, too and there were real costs from the debt ceiling fight in 2011 but treasuries are the save haven investment.
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the dollar is still the world reserve. >> that will change. it will take time but those little changes are taking place. to answer your question, pierce, it's a slow burner. it's not going to be a massive thing overnight but everybody will start to notice the effects. people talk about the 1979 debt little bit of hiccup. interest rates nudged up a bit. some people paid higher on their mortgages for that. over time, it will have a corrosive effect. you cannot have this sort of dislocation in financial markets and not see an effect. >> christine, final word to you. what is your gut feeling about how bad this is going to be? >> i'm worried about the complacency and i'm worried so many people say it's not a big deal. look, stocks are up so much since last time we were here. stocks had a good run, job creation. things won't fall out of bed on october 17th. i'm worried by the time you're worried about it, my grandma don't get a social security
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check and the social security trust fund might get an i owe you and things get ugly and unforeseen links become unravelled and too late to stop it. >> thank you-all very much indeed. what congress is doing is unconstitutional but why ted cruz is a genius, you heard me, the man that got saddam hussein to negotiate. do you see any hope here? i save time, money,st, and i avoid frustration. you'll find reviews on home repair to healthcare, written by people just like you. find out why more than two million members
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i want to bring in two people that wrote the book how america should work. it's called" taking the stand, my life and the law." could he handle ted cruz, former new mexico governor, the author "how to sweet talk a shark." welcome to you both. two perfect people to follow through the earlier conversation. this is fascinating. see, you taught ted cruz at harvard. >> he was raising his hand, always his right hand making intelligent points and really winning debates all the time in
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the class including winning debates with professors. >> one of the best students you've had? >> one of the sharpest students i've had in terms of an lit tick skills, i had 10,000 students in my 50 years and i write about my great students. he has to qualify among the brightest of the students. >> we have to assume from that we have an extraordinary piece of inside from him, he's come from nowhere to many people this is part of a strategy. do what do you think his strategy is? >> i think he deeply believes what he's doing. i don't think of him so much as a tactical or strategic thinker. he thinks he's doing the right thing, it doesn't mean it's the right thing but it's hard to get off that principled argument. he was not a compromiser. he was not somebody that tried to make friends by accepting what was then the political correctness of the day. if you want to defeat ted cruz,
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you have to appeal to his principles. >> you're a top lawyer. when he's basically taking a established law like obama care, whether you like it or parts and you use it to stick down the american government, that's taking it far, isn't it, principle? >> it raises constitutional questions of the kind ted cruz should be interested. in could you imagine hamilton and madison sitting around and drafting the constitution and the federalist papers and talking about how the government has to pay its debts, how it has to secure the credit of the united states. how the house of representatives generate bills of revenue, nobody would comp plait to hitdown the government. i think you can make a strong argument that ted cruz is doing is deeply unconstitutional, whether a court would accept that or say it's a political
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question is a question. cruz ought to look into the constitution and his heard and say what would he do? >> bill richardson, you sat down with some of the most evil tyrants in the history and not putting ted cruz or boehner or the president in that, but there seems to be a problem here in the ability of the key players in this particular debacle to sit around a negotiating table and get things done. what is the problem, and from all of your experience and as detailed in your book, how do we get through this? >> i suggest add mediator but it's too late now. we're on the brink of a major decision, a catastrophic decision if we don't take action. here is what i would do. i would test ted cruz with a vote. i would test -- john boehner can
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test his own members. i think the key player is john boehner. he can go tomorrow to the caucus after the senate presumely a passes a bill, possibly over riding ted cruz in a filibuster and say look, i have achieved the goals that you wanted me to. this is his caucus, his 40 taliban members of the tea party. i've shut the government down. we've succeeded in doing that. we now have the outlines of a potential deal, tax reform, some kind of entitlement reform, spending cuts. we tried an obama care. it didn't happen. we have to move on. i think he in the end, i served in the congress 15 years. all of these deals are made at the last minute and i think that john boehner and mitch mcconnell, harry reid, nancy pelosi and the president, they are reasonable people. >> but ted cruz seems to be on
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his own mission and many believe his real game plan is to raise his own profile high enough to have a run at the presidency, which may seem ridiculous, but actually, i don't think it's as outlandish as people imagine. >> there is no question. the only thing i think allen had an out standing view of what is happening, i don't think he's principaled. he loves the attention and loves to be the darling of the tea party but what you do with people that are bullies is you test them and i think the senate tomorrow will test ted cruz. is he going to pass -- is he going to try to obstruct a senate deal that the majority of his party and the senate is supporting? in the end i don't think he can stop it. this is what i think john boehner can do. we have gone to the last brink.
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we can't have this nation default. it's hurting internationally. people are getting hurt. let the housework it's will. >> alan, is rome fiddling while the world is getting on with other stuff? in other words, china is looking at this saying increasingly this is ridiculous. this deamericanized the world while america burns in these guy's toying around with each other on a tiny pit of principle, we'll get on with the bigger danger which america hasn't faced with situations with the debt ceiling or, you know, with -- on debt issues. now they got a real alternative. >> i agree. not only that, we're trying to negotiate a deal from iran and strength and they want us to stop sanctions. if we're in a procurious economic situation, we'll have far less leverage when it comes to sanctions, far less leverage when it comes to world influence. this is bad for america and the
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world and democracy and the war against terrorism and everything this country should stand for and that's why that appeal has to be made to cruz. cruz doesn't care whether other senators like him. he wants to get reelected and has constituents saying you're the most wonderful person in the world, thank you for standing up for us. we have to persuade him what he's doing is inconsistent with his own principles. >> what about, richardson, president obama's performance in all of this? its easy to say blame ted cruz but when the commander in chief has to take charge and prevent the country being damaged as best he can, sitting back in the manner that he has and sort of saying -- if you don't mind me saying, arrogantly saying this is your problem republicans, i'm enjoying you sweat. is that great leadership? >> if you look at the record, piers, he called leadership in.
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he has tried. when one house says it's our way or the highway he has no choice but resort to having harry reid take the lead, senate democrats take the lead. >> or do what bill clinton told you? when he was dealing with newt gingrich in the '90s or vladimir putin, you get in a room, chunk everybody out and go at each other until you get it done. i see that has not happened so far. >> what i would do and maybe it's too late to do this. if i were the president and i think he's done the right thing, i would get everybody into the white house, the leadership, no staff and say, unless you guys make a deal, you're not going to leave here. you're not going to talk to your caucuses, you're not going to talk to the press because that locks in so many members. he can still do that tomorrow. shut the white house door. maybe have them all stay in the lincoln bedroom but i think the
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time has come for everybody to get in a room away from the enormous pressure. everyone is tired. they are angry. this is a time for mediation and perhaps the president can do it. i think he's acted -- >> let's take a short break and come back and continue this and the longer term damage to the republicans and record lows for them and midterms coming up and a big election again. many think it's totally self-defeating what has been going on. i'll get your take on that. [ sneezes, coughs ] i've got a big date, but my sinuses are acting up. it's time for advil cold and sinus. [ male announcer ] truth is that won't relieve all your symptoms. new alka seltzer plus-d relieves more sinus symptoms than any other behind the counter liquid gel.
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because many on the republican side, including senator john mccain and others, fear this is causing really severe damage to the gop. and they've got some big stuff coming up. the mid-terms, then they've got the main elections in 2016. is this split between a newly galvanized tea party and the main body politic of the gop going to be very much a problem for them? >> it's going to be a problem for them. however, both sides look bad. both parties look bad. but i do think republicans, their dream of take over the senate i think is now gone because of this shutdown debt limit issue. the house republicans, the tea party guys are going to get re-electeded because of gerrymandering. they're probably even going to be stronger. but what i think may emerge is -- and what i think is needed in this country is a stronger moderate republican party that
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can pass legislation with democrats in the house and the senate. but yeah, i do think it's going to hurt the republicans with newt gingrich and bill clinton. bill clinton take out a big victor in that shutdown. i was there. but what i think is very important now in the end is find a way not to denigrate each other. don't go blaming. get everyone in the room, make a deal and i think it's going to happen. >> this is a pew poll, right? would you like to see most members of congress re-elected next election? 74% no. almost a stain on both your houses. >> i don't think that ted cruz thinks of himself as having a constituency among other senators or congressmen, even the republican party. he is the ultimate populist. he is adored by the people who support him. that's where he gets his energy. and i think his feeling is, the republicans lose the mid-term
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election that's their problem. that's not my problem. i represent the state of texas, the people who elected me, and the principles for which i stand. >> >> could you imagine him making a serious run for presidency? >> i think he's hurt his chances to do that. to get to the president it's not enough to win some primaries. you need the establishment in your corner, majority of the electoral votes. and i think that he has mortgaged that in the interests of maintaining his control over the small group, relatively small group of people. >> what about president obama? you can easily say look, he's been put in an impossible position here by the multifactions gop behavior, particularly using obama care, an established law with support from the supreme court and everything else. as the stick to beat him with. he's perfectly entitled to stand
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back and say i won't be held to ransom. >> it's a mistake. >> at what point do you need to prove intransigent no to let's get in a room and get this done. at the moment we're not seeing that. >> the american people want to see their president assume a leadership role. they want to see the president above congress, above the senate, they want to seat president say, i'm in charge. come into the room. this is my administration. this is my responsibility. these are my rules. i'm the one who has to face the european countries and china. you're going to have to sit in a room, you're going to have to resolve this and you're not going to get out of this room until you come to a satisfactory resolution. >> the president has said let's put obama care aside. let's solve the debt limit. let's have a continuing resolution. end the shutdown. look, i'm ready to talk about spending cuts, the budget, a long-term budget deal. i'm ready to talk about tax reform, ways to make the tax system more equitable. i'm ready to talk about entitlement reform. and i think what they should
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follow doing, too, piers, is a jobs plan. an economic agenda plan. investments in education, regulatory reform, technology incentives, an energy bill. i think they can actually look good after this debacle in a forward agenda. immigration reform. that's an opportunity. >> moving from being negative to all the time trying to stop things happening collectively making things benefit the american people. i thank you both very much. fascinating conversation. that's all for us tonight. "ac 360 later" will start in a few moments. we'll be back with all of this drama of course tomorrow. [ starter ] ready! [ starting gun goes off ] [ male announcer ] it's less of a race... yeah! [ male announcer ] and more of a journey. and that keeps you going strong. at unitedhealthcare insurance company, we get that. with over 30 years of experience, we'll be there -- ready to go as far as you.
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good evening. welcome to "ac 360 later." live tonight from washington, d.c. where the people who work in the building behind me are simply running out of time. if you're keeping score at home, lawmakers now have about 26 hours until the debt ceiling deadline. it is a race against the clock in a route that has been littered with canceled votes and a whole lot of hot air. there are serious consequences to not making a deal, a warning from the fitch rating agency putting the united states on note its credit rating is on danger of being downgraded because of all the brinkmanship that has the u.s. government teetering on a default. tonight a house plan was canceled, a senate vote could be close. dana bash and christine romans with what happens if the deal

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